Topic-icon Biczak SZUKAM

6 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu - 6 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #32338 przez Maria Nowicka
Agnieszka, pierwsza córka Michała Biczaka i Marianny z Nowakowskich (w innych aktach Nowak, takie oboczności w aktach metrykalnych zdarzają się często) urodziła się w Woli Mokrzeskiej parafia Żuraw, w 1868 roku, akt nr 5, kolejne dzieci Helena, Józef, Błażej, Elżbieta rodziły się w Folwarku Dziadówki w Parafii Złoty Potok
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COM_KUNENA_THANKYOU: Marta Urbańska

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6 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #32363 przez Marta Urbańska
Bardzo dziękuję ! Jestem ogromnie wdzięczna

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6 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #32370 przez Caroline Brymora
Halo Marta from Australii!
I also am interested in Biczak, my husband's ancestor Piotr Biczak married Eva Brymora in 1796. Parish Przybynow. I do know know if this is the same family Biczak.

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6 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #32371 przez Marta Urbańska
Hi Caroline.
Unfortunately, it will not be this family. But I think about these
1748 Piotr Biczak father Mikołaj mother Łucja Przybynów Suliszowice
1748 Walenty Biczak father Mikołaj mother Łucja Przybynów Suliszowice

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6 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #32373 przez Marta Urbańska
1728 Albert? Biczek Mikołaj Łucja Przybynów Młyn
1731 7 Franciszek Biczek Mikołaj Łucja Przybynów Biskupice
1734 Agnieszka Biczek Mikołaj Przybynów
1738 Marianna Biczek Mikołaj Justyna Przybynów Suliszowice
1744 Filip Biczek Mikołaj Łucja Przybynów Suliszowice
1748 Piotr Biczak Mikołaj Łucja
1748 Walenty Biczak Mikołaj Łucja Przybynów Suliszowice
COM_KUNENA_THANKYOU: Caroline Brymora

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6 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #32374 przez Caroline Brymora
Where is this data from please Marta?

It has been a while since I looked at this family, but the earliest I found was marriage 1770 of Jan Biczak and Giertruda Pięcionka.

Eventually I will get my husband to do Y-DNA test. His male like goes directly back to Piotr Biczak.

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6 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu - 6 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #32376 przez Rafał Molencki
All the data are from our searcher (wyszukiwarka nazwisk). On 20 August 1793 Tekla Żarska (1773-1809) from Suliszowice , a cousin of my great great great grandfather, married Franciszek Biczak (1763-1822) from Suliszowice. Franciszek was baptized 1 Dec 1763 as a son of Mateusz and Katarzyna Biczak. There were quite a few Biczaks in the Przybynów parish. In the same year 1763 were baptized Marcin Biczaczek (10 Nov), son of Piotr and Petronela from Suliszowice; Wojciech Biczak (Adalbertus; 21 April), son of Wojciech (Albert) and Ewa from Suliszowice, and Agata Biczek (5 February), daughter of Jan and Agnieszka from Choroń.
The relationship between the Biczaks of Przybynów and those of Złoty Potok is worth checking - Suliszowice neighbours some of the villages belonging to the Potok parish, e.g. Siedlec. The spelling variants (Bicek, Bicak, Biczek, Biczak, Bieczak, etc.), diminutives (e.g. Biczaczek) and feminine forms (e.g. Biczaczka, Biczkowa) should be taken into account. There were also some Biczaks in Zrębice, Żarki and possibly in the other parishes in the area .
COM_KUNENA_THANKYOU: Caroline Brymora

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32384 przez Marta Urbańska
Mam zrobioną dość daleką rodzinę i Biczakowie ze Złotego Potoku nie mają nic wspólnego z tymi z Przybynowa. Chyba,że coś pominęłam ale wątpię.

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32386 przez Maria Nowicka
Pani Marto, genealogia lubi płatać figle. Z aktu ślubu z 1837 r. Feliksa Biczaka (miał wtedy 23 lata) z Magdaleną wynika, że urodził się ok 1814 roku, a jego ojciec miał na imię Gabriel. To imię niezbyt często występuje w aktach metrykalnych. Istnieje prawdopodobieństwo, że ojciec Feliksa Biczaka, to Gabryel urodzony w 1787 r. w Suliszowicach w parafii Przybynów syn Wojciecha i Franciszki.

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32387 przez Marta Urbańska
W sumie ma Pani rację. Wiem tylko tyle,że Gabryel pobrał się z Katarzyną z Kozaków. Więcej informacji dalej nie posiadam bo zajmuję się też kolejną stroną w drzewie.
Can I get in touch with you, Caroline Brymor?

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32397 przez Caroline Brymora
Yes, of course! Ten adres pocztowy jest chroniony przed spamowaniem. Aby go zobaczyć, konieczne jest włączenie w przeglądarce obsługi JavaScript.

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32398 przez Arkadiusz Pluta
Witam też mam problem ale z Ewą Biczak (zgon 1821 w wieku około 60 lat), która wyszła za Piotra Brymora (zgon w 1818 w wieku około 50 lat) syna Antoniego Brymory z Choronia. Aktu ślubu tej pary nie mogę znaleźć. Mieli dzieci urodzone w Choroniu: Mateusz 1798, Wojciech 1805, Małgorzata 1807 ( ślub z Szymonem Mizera - linia mojej babki). Jest kilka opcji Ewa mogła być córką Wojciecha i Ewa Biczaków (dała synowi imię Wojciech po dziadku a sama mogła mieć imię po matce). Chociaż również może być córką Mateusza i Katarzyny Biczaków, albo Jana i Agnieszki Biczaków. Sam mam w rodzinie kilka przypadków, gdzie na chrzcie dawano jedno imię a w dalszym życiu dana osoba funkcjonowała pod innym imieniem. Może ktoś z forumowiczów zna odpowiedź.

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32399 przez Caroline Brymora
Hello Arkadiusz

Ewa Brymora and Piotr Biczak married 1796 and they took the name Brymora. Attached image.

I think Eva corka Jan Brymora and Franciszka Morawiec 1767.

I have notes and images from marriage in a file, it is too big to put here.
Email me and I will send to you. Ten adres pocztowy jest chroniony przed spamowaniem. Aby go zobaczyć, konieczne jest włączenie w przeglądarce obsługi JavaScript.


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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32400 przez Caroline Brymora
We are related Arkadiusz?

My husband's GGG Grandfather was Mateusz.

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu - 6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32404 przez Arkadiusz Pluta
Hello Caroline,

I know this file, but I think, that Ewa Biczak and Ewa Brymora is not the same person. In death file 1821 of Ewa Brymora (name after husband) is written, that her maiden surname is Biczak.

www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7...364380001&cc=2115410

Her husband is Peter Brymora and his death certificate 1818.

www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7...364378901&cc=2115410

You probably right that your Ewa Brymora (married Peter Biczak) is the daugter of Jan Brymora and Franciszka Morawiec 1767, and Eva Brymora was married 1796. Of course, is the possibility of mistakes of these two couples in the files too.

I have also mentioned, that my Ewa Biczak and Peter Brymora have a first son Mateusz 1798 (perhaps after your GGG Grandfather Mateusz Biczak). I have no proof only guess, but I think that all Biczak from parish Przybynów and Koziegłówki, are related (the same stirps).

Best Regards

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32425 przez Caroline Brymora
Arkadiusz I have just looked through index 1773-1805 - did not find any marriages of male Biczak or Brymora. But I have not looked at this parish before, will look more when I can find some time!

www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ...363029501&cc=2115410

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32426 przez Caroline Brymora
Here is what I wrote about Biczak and Brymora and why I think that Piotr Biczak and Eva Brymora used the surname Brymora. Arkadiusz I would really like to hear your thoughts.

I have a file with the links to scans, and the images, but it is too large to upload - I can email to you if you would like to see it.

I wrote in January 2016:

What I had found when I started to suspect that the name was changed:
• My husband’s great great great grandfather was Mateusz Brymora.
• Mateusz marriage act 1818 has no father’s name listed. It states his mother is Ewa Biczak. Mateusz had an uncle Franciszek Brymora named in the marriage act. The age of Mateusz at his marriage indicates his birth was approx. 1798.
• Mateusz Brymora second marriage in 1856 says age 60, puts birth approx. 1796. Name given is Mateusz Brymora v Biczakien. Names his parents as Piotr I Ewa Biczakow v Brymorow.
• Mateusz Brymora died in 1875 and his parents are listed on his death record as Adam and Ewa Brpymora. Age at death 78 years, puts birth approx. 1797
• From this I found his birth act in 1798 which is very difficult to read as it was added later to the book. The Index states his father was Piotr. The town of birth is not stated or not readable.

Looking for the marriage of Mateusz’ parents:
• No marriage record found in Przybynow parish for Piotr Brymora and Ewa Biczak.
• Marriage record of 1796 found for Piotr Biczak and Ewa Brymorzanka.

Looking for Piotr Brymora or Biczak
• Death record found for Piotr Brymora 1819 stating brother Franciszek.
• No death record found for Piotr Biczak
• Birth record found for Piotr Biczak 1772 in Choron
• No birth record found for Piotr Brymora

Looking for Ewa Brymora or Biczak
• Death record found for Ewa Brymora in Choron 1821 “Ew Biczakowo z Bromerow” age 60
• Death record found for Ewa Biczak 1785 – age 40. Died 13 years before Mateusz was born.
• Birth record found for Ewa Brymora – 1767 in Choron – age 31 when Mateusz was born. Father Jan mother Gertruda.
• Birth record found for Ewa Biczak – 1788 in Przybynow. If this was our Eva, it would have meant she married at 8 years old and had a child at 10 years old. Not impossible, but very improbable.
• I worked on the theory that the Ewa Brymora born in 1767 was our woman. Her parents were Jan and Gertruda. She had a twin brother Adam, and other siblings were Franciszek and Wojciech (twins), Katarzyna, Stanisław and Cecylia. I have not found what happened to them all.

Godparent information
• Ewa Brymorzanka is named as godmother to three children prior to the marriage record. These were in 1790, 1791 and 1792. If this was Ewa born in 1767 then she was in her early 20s at the time. She is stated to be from Choron in all of these records.
• Ewa Biczak is named as godmother to four children after the marriage record, 1797, 1798, 1804 and 1806. If this was the other Ewa Biczak born in 1788, she was only 9 in 1797, and highly unlikely to be old enough to be a godmother. She is from Choron in all of these records, except for the 1804 record which says Biscupice. This could be an error, the family may have moved temporarily, or it could be the other Ewa Brymora if she was living in Biskupice as she would have been 18 at that time.
• I feel that there is a high probability that the godmother in these records is Ewa Brymora born 1767.
• I do not think that the 1788 Ewa is our lady – she was too young to be a godmother.

Birth records of children of Piotr and Ewa Brymora/Biczak
• Matuesz 1798 is almost unreadable
• Agnieszka 1800 daughter of Piotr and Ewa Biczak. Marriage in 1815 listing Piotr Biczak and Ewa Brymora as parent names.
• Wojciech Brymora 1805 son of Piotr and Ewa Brymora. No maiden name listed. Noted that other records surrounding this record do show maiden names.
• Malgorzata Brymora 1807 daughter of Piotr Brymora and Ewa Biczak
• Franciszka Brymora 1811 daughter of Piotr Klimek* and Ewa Bremorzanka Death of Franciszka 10 days old, daughter of Piotr Brymora and Ewa Brymora
• Franciszka Brymora 1812 daughter of Piotr Biczak and Ewa Brymora. Her marriage record in 1837 says daughter of Piotr and Ewa Klimek* vel Biczak

• *Piotr Klimek is noted as a neighbour’s name in the death of Jan 1808, age 70, who I believe is Ewa’s father.

If the record of birth for Ewa Brymora is correct, in 1767, then her parents were Jan and Franciszka. Looking for their deaths:
• Death record of Jan Brymora, in 1808, at the house of his son-in-law (not named). Announced by neighbour Piotr Klimek.
• Death record of Franciszka Brymora, in 1810, at the house of Piotr Biczak. Death announced by son of deceased Wojciech Brymora and Piotr Biczak.

• There is enough in the above two records for me to feel that, on the balance of probabilities, these records are for Eva’s parents. The fact that son-in-law is mentioned for one, and Piotr Biczak is mentioned for the other, links the two families further. The mention of Klimek is still a mystery, as Piotr seems to have used the name Klimek as well as Brymora.

Death of Ewa 1821:
• Death record of Ewa Brymora 1821 age 60. Death announced by Matuesz, son of deceased. Parents not named in the record. Age 60 at death in 1821 puts birth date as approximately 1861, which is six years different from the birth record found. This does not rule out Ewa being born in 1767. Ages on death records were often estimated by family members.

In the 1790-1791 census, House 25 is listed as:
• Jan Brymora
• Zona Franciszka
• Corka Ewa
• Syn Wojciech
• Corka Katarzyna
• Syn Stanisław
There is no house with family Biczak in Choron in that census.
Houses 10 and 11 contained families Klimesek including a son Piotr age 17.

Odd evidence:
• The death record for Piotr Brymora in 1819 refers to a brother called Franciszek Brymora. If Piotr had a brother, then his name would be Biczak. If the theory is true that Piotr took Eva’s surname Brymora, then my best guess is that this is Eva’s brother (as she did have a brother called Franciszek) or another relative. I can find no siblings for Piotr Biczak in the church books. Mateusz’ wedding was attended by his uncle Franciszek Brymora. Could this be the same man?

I believe that there is sufficient evidence of the couple using both names, predominantly the wife’s name of Brymora, in the records I have found.
My conclusion is that for whatever reason, Piotr Biczak and Ewa Brymora took on her surname when they married.

Questions Raised by this research:

What happened to twin brother Adam?
What happened to other siblings?
Who was Franciszek (mentioned in Piotr’s death record as his brother, is this the uncle at Mateusz’ wedding?
Why was Anastazja given the name Biczak and the others given Brymora?
Why would Piotr take on the name Brymora instead of Ewa taking the name Biczak?
Why would Piotr also use the name Klimek?

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32473 przez Arkadiusz Pluta
Caroline,

Probability is only probability. When is missing some files, that is no proof. The same thing is with the census. Maybe Biczk by some reasons just do not want to be written. It happens even nowadays.

But this census shows, that Peter Brymora had brother Franciszek 1757 (parents Antoni and Zofia), which was mentioned in death record 1819. He was married three times. First wife Marrianna ( children: Agata, Józef Rozalia, Wojciech), second wife Zofia (in census is mentioned with children from first marriage: Agata, Józef, Rozalia). She had children: Dorota, Stanisław, Elżbieta, Stanisław, Franciszek) and third wife-widow Zofia Potępska (marrige 1810 Choroń) - link www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ...362534201&cc=2115410

So, Antoni Brymora (death 1795) with Zofia (death 1785) for sure had two sons: Franciszek 1757 and Piotr Brymora. In my opinion Mateusz 1798 (married with Apolonia Warwas) is for sure son of Piotr Brymora and Ewa Biczak.

The puzzle with Ewa as godmother is very simple. This is Ewa Brymora 1767 before marriage as a maiden anf after marriage with Piotr Biczak (1796) as wife with name of husband.

The puzzle with Ewa Biczak is difficult (maybe is sister of Franciszek Biczak - death 1811).

A propos Biskupice I knew Brymora from Biskupice in my childhood. The Klimek ( I know Klimek in parish Zrębice - it was very probably second name).

"I have a file with the links to scans, and the images, but it is too large to upload - I can email to you if you would like to see it."

May e-mail - Ten adres pocztowy jest chroniony przed spamowaniem. Aby go zobaczyć, konieczne jest włączenie w przeglądarce obsługi JavaScript.

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32475 przez Caroline Brymora
Thank you. Sending you an email soon!

I know of course there is never 100% proof :) And I am interested in more information - always.

There are two families Brymora. To be able to connect them would be wonderful.

You seem certain that Antoni is father of Piotr Brymora... I have not seen any record about this. Please tell me where I need to look?

Would also like to know where this fits for your family :)

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu - 6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32481 przez Arkadiusz Pluta
Caroline,

Franciszek Brymora was only one in this time , and I have not found any birth certificate of Piotr Brymora. But...You herself wrote:

"The death record for Piotr Brymora in 1819 refers to a brother called Franciszek Brymora"

and

"Mateusz marriage act 1818 has no father’s name listed. It states his mother is Ewa Biczak. Mateusz had an uncle Franciszek Brymora named in the marriage act. The age of Mateusz at his marriage indicates his birth was approx. 1798."

We have birth certificate of Mateusz 1798 ( father Peter Brymora) and Franciszek Brymora's birth certificate 1757.

These two documents are very strong facts. There are some other small convergences.

I do not believe in change of surname of Piotr Brymora (no proof) , because of his brother Franciszek Brymora, which was very close to his family and death certificate of Mateusz is written Brymora (mistake of name of father - no Adam and Ewa but Piotr and Ewa). Klimek is the second surname of family Biczak not Brymora (example Jan and Łucja Biczak or Piotr and Ewa Biczak 1796).

In my opinion change of surname after wife (very, very rarely) is exception to the rule. Often the illegal child took the surname of mother, but this situation of Brymora is different.

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6 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #32484 przez Andrzej Kuśnierczyk
Na marginesie ciekawego dyskursu o nazwisku Biczak (i "geografii" jego występowania) informacja o Janie Biczaku, robotniku z Ostatniego Grosza (parafia św. Zygmunta) i jego małżonce Wiktorii Kret: w 1913 r. urodziła im się córka Cecylia (akt nr 1066).
Ta linia wywodziła się z Choronia.

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